Curse

Personette · Mar 20, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

I don't mind so much for humor sake. But the people that think it makes them leet kinda get on my nerves.

The problem is, in a technical sense, good grammar is often a sign of membership in an elite...

A really good education will pressure you into speaking properly, and teach you to disdain those that don't.

Kattar · Mar 20, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personette

The problem is, in a technical sense, good grammar is often a sign of membership in an elite...

A really good education will pressure you into speaking properly, and teach you to disdain those that don't.

This is true of many people, and I do not mean to imply this is what I think.

It can be aggravating when I have to translate for some kid just so I can understand what he means when he's talking to the group.

That's all I meant really.

beanerman_99 · Mar 20, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

I don't like people in Pug's who run off way ahead of the group, especially in places like FoW and UW. And it not just warriors, I have seen about all classes think they are Rambo and charge in. No one waits for ele's or monks to regen energy after a tough battle. They just aggro the next group while I am sittiing on like 10 out of 90 energy.

Ctb · Mar 20, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

The problem is, in a technical sense, good grammar is often a sign of membership in an elite...

There's a difference between being so heavily educated that you can cite archaic grammar rules off the cuff and intentionally confusing things by typn lk a rtrded wambat.

I don't expect people to act like blue-blooded grammar nazis, I just expect them to use something that might be confused for an actual language.

On some scale it does irritate me from the perspective of it showing a distinctive lack of education or effort, but mostly it just annoys me because I hate trying to decipher the stupidspeak that thirteen year old girls on text messaging tools have managed to shove into so many facets of modern society.

But, then, I'm an old fogey...

lyra_song · Mar 20, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personette

The problem is, in a technical sense, good grammar is often a sign of membership in an elite...

Says who?

Good grammar is simply a sign that you know proper grammar.

If you can read English, I expect you to be able to write some English.

I know at least two people in GW who speak english poorly (since it is their second language) but type/communicate online fine. English is my second language also.

If you are a native speaker, you have no excuse.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 20, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

It's text-speek, not really leetspeek. Omitting vowels and shortening words speeds up writing text messages on the sucky interface of a cell phone. Unfortunately people do this even when they've got the perfectly good interface of a keyboard, even though it's no longer faster to type (and definitely slower to read).

bigtime102 · Mar 20, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

There's a difference between being so heavily educated that you can cite archaic grammar rules off the cuff and intentionally confusing things by typn lk a rtrded wambat.

I don't expect people to act like blue-blooded grammar nazis, I just expect them to use something that might be confused for an actual language.

On some scale it does irritate me from the perspective of it showing a distinctive lack of education or effort, but mostly it just annoys me because I hate trying to decipher the stupidspeak that thirteen year old girls on text messaging tools have managed to shove into so many facets of modern society.

But, then, I'm an old fogey...

Written language isnt a science, theres no formula, its all made up crap as it goes, therefore there is no such thing correct grammar or spellings. Its nothing more than art, like a fashion it will change time to time and there will always be those who cant keep up with the times and complain.

Back on topic, I hate people like you. No offense nothing personal.

Personette · Mar 20, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

Written language isnt a science, theres no formula, its all made up crap as it goes, therefore there is no such thing correct grammar or spellings. Its nothing more than art, like a fashion it will change time to time and there will always be those who cant keep up with the times and complain.

You're wrong.

A style of writing is like fashion, a fad. Styles go in and out all the time. The elements of construction remain constant. Spelling and grammar is more like making a straight hemline, knowing how to cut on the bias, or learning to do a perfect lockstitch. There is a right and a wrong way to do all of those things - ditto with grammar and spelling.

I was really replying to someone who said that they don't like people who think that good spelling and grammar make them "leet" - when the truth of the matter is, good spelling and grammar is almost always a reflection of social status (present or future). It's not an opinion; it's a truth. Whether or not you like it, or think it's fair.

But I guess some people do hate the truth...

Rak Orgon of Beowulf · Mar 20, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

It's text-speek, not really leetspeek. Omitting vowels and shortening words speeds up writing text messages on the sucky interface of a cell phone. Unfortunately people do this even when they've got the perfectly good interface of a keyboard, even though it's no longer faster to type (and definitely slower to read).

It may be true that things are easier and often faster when typing, and its also true, that if you use the predicted texting option on a cell phone speed and correct grammar are both attainable.

I also dislike the crazy "WTS X item PM me AFK" people

If you want the item, you try to send them a whisper, but they've really been away for 4 hours and you'd have to wait another 4 for them to get back on.

Also: I'm not a huge fan of people who break aggro in Slavers Exile. You know, like the nukers that call that they're targeting the monk in the back row.

FlamingMetroid · Mar 20, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Farmers.

I like money, as do most people, and playing GW regularly yields enough money for maybe 1 high end item or armor after playing all campaigns through. If playing PvE and doing quests was more profitable I wouldn't farm, but it isn't, therefor to have the things I want in game, I have to farm. Yeah, there's powertrading, but I don't have the patience or time for that.

On topic though, blind people. Seriously, this thread depresses me.

N1ghtstalker · Mar 20, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

unprepared players
what's that you might think?
well: before i go farming i always make sure i don't have to leave the pc for a stupid reason so my team doesn't have to wait
but for some reason ppl just think it's normal to go afk in a farm >_>
so like half of all my norn farms has to be with one noob that goes afk without saying anything
now it was one of the monks that went afk bah
i ahte that -.-

Ctb · Mar 20, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Written language isnt a science, theres no formula, its all made up crap as it goes, therefore there is no such thing correct grammar or spellings. Its nothing more than art, like a fashion it will change time to time and there will always be those who cant keep up with the times and complain.

Back on topic, I hate people like you. No offense nothing personal.

So much fail in such a short post...

A "grammar" is, by definition, a derived set of rules that specifies how a language is formed and how it works. Therefore, by definition, a grammar is always correct, excepting that it was defined incorrectly.

Not only that, the process by which one comes up with a grammar in linguistics is a mathematical process. I guess we could have a philosophical argument over whether or not math is science though...

Finally, you appear to be confusing the APPLICATION of grammar and grammar itself. You can incorrectly apply a grammar in something like poetry or literature for artistic purposes, but the grammar itself is still quite set in stone, especially in a rigidly syntactic language like English.

Really though, what it all comes down to is this: if you speak or write like you're an idiot I'm just going to assume you're an idiot. This rule hasn't failed me yet, Guild Wars or otherwise. You can get all high and mighty about old farts like me not being adaptable, but you go ahead and try and communicate like a kid on a text messenger the first time you get a decent job and we'll see mightily quick who wins this argument.

Ouchie · Mar 20, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I am not prejudice I hate everyone equally

people who don't use/have skills
people who overuse/have all the right skills
people who have good grammar and insist it be used
people who have bad grammar and insist it be used
People who are rich and let you know it
people who are poor and let you know it
People who post on forums
People who don't know how to find a forum
people who always use wiki
people who never use wiki

people who smoke and endanger my life, people who don't smoke and complain about people who do, people who wear white after labor day (tacky) - people who don't wear white after labor day because society dictates that they shouldn't, people who eat meat and kill animals, people who don't eat meat and expect a second meal to be prepared just for them, people who eat everything off their plate hungry or not, people who don't eat everything off their plate and throw away good food..........

it's the post that never ends.....

Res Ipsi · Mar 20, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

Written language isnt a science, theres no formula, its all made up crap as it goes, therefore there is no such thing correct grammar or spellings. Its nothing more than art, like a fashion it will change time to time and there will always be those who cant keep up with the times and complain.

I hope the only thing you're aspiring to is a low-end job, because that's as far as your textspeak will get you.

Usurp · Mar 20, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Nugget

The players that repeat things or add extra !, and ?'s.

What's wrong with adding extra punctuation???

It is fun!!!

Usurp · Mar 20, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtime102

Written language isnt a science, theres no formula, its all made up crap as it goes, therefore there is no such thing correct grammar or spellings. Its nothing more than art, like a fashion it will change time to time and there will always be those who cant keep up with the times and complain.

Back on topic, I hate people like you. No offense nothing personal.

Everyone on this forum who is a certified teacher of English Lit. & Composition and works as a professional tech. writer raise your hand.
[Usurp raises hand proudly]
Having established that...literature is artistic and grammar is a science. If everyone decided to use their own rules for syntax, then it would be impossible to communicate. You can't justify simple laziness by claiming that "language is an art". Creative composition and leet speak are very distant in relation...antonymous actually.

It is true that none of us should expect perfect usage in game chat or on forums, but some measure of clarity and form are not beyond anyone's ability and are fair to expect.

Lem · Mar 20, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

The players that complain any/every change to the game will cause the end of the world/game economy/gaming as we know it etc.

kokuou · Mar 20, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

As a linguist, I have a few things to say about grammar.

First of all, most of the complaints people have are not about grammar; they are about spelling, punctuation, and the omitting (or replacing) of letters. Grammar has to do with the syntactic structure of a language, and a native speaker can never use "incorrect" grammar. Of course there are slip-ups (such as speakers changing what they are going to say part way through an utterance, which makes the part they have already said possibly grammatically strange), but in regular speech, a native speaker will never break grammar rules in the way that a non-native speaker would (i.e. "The mans was rode in car" would never be uttered in natural speech by a native speaker, where as it very well may be by a non-native speaker).

As a linguist, we are taught to be descriptive. That is, we look at language and how people use it and we describe phenomena and trends that we see. Prescriptivists, on the other hand, "prescribe" language rules, saying things like, "You can't split an infinitive!" (which, by the way, is a rule chosen by someone arbitrarily based on LATIN of all languages).

The fact is that people DO break these types of "rules" all the time. Language, by definition, is created and evolved by its speakers. English, for example, has gone through extensive changes in the past few hundred years. (Don't believe me? Look up Chaucer, a famous writer of Middle English.)
And because language evolves based on how its speakers use it, this can render old "rules" obsolete for a number of reasons.

I do believe in the proper use of language with traditional rules (to a certain degree; there are some rules I despise and will not adhere to) for applications of language such as professional publications, university papers, and the like, because it is acceptable, or rather required, in such settings.

As for the language used in-game, this is simply the culture of the in-game population. As said above, it's textspeak, and it has nothing to do with a person's intelligence. Admittedly, overdoing it can result in something hard to read for the uninitiated, but that's the way that young players have chosen to express themselves.
Personally, I find it sociolinguistically awkward to type with capital letters and perfect punctuation in-game. It would be like saying to a close friend, "May I have the privelege of accompanying you to a movie this coming weekend?" Language is used based on the social setting, and when such social rules are broken, it results in awkwardness and the possibility of being labelled strange or even excluded from that culture.

If you've found a group of friends that use perfect spelling, punctuation, and capitalization to talk with, then, by all means, fly at 'er. But remember, to judge someone based on how they type (judging people based on the CONTENT of what they type is a different matter completely) is a form of discrimination and such linguistic "shortcuts" should have no bearing on that person's intelligence.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 20, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I hate when people refuse to speak in English. I don't mean when they speak another language; that's fine, it's when they speak almost like English but with such pathetically bad grammar and spelling that it doesn't really count as a language at all. Obviously any such people are too young to play this game, because by age 13 you need to be able to use at least passably good spelling and grammar; otherwise you're classified as illiterate and do not belong in the text-based world that is the Internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokuou

population. As said above, it's textspeak, and it has nothing to do with a person's intelligence.

Well, every 'textspeaker' I have met has also been an idiot in the content of their discourse with me, and I have never seen an intelligent person use text speak except when mocking the text speak users. So for now I will equate 'textspeaking' with mental deficiency.

kokuou · Mar 20, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Personette

You're wrong.

There is a right and a wrong way to do all of those things - ditto with grammar and spelling.

Actually, different style guides have different ways of doing things for a number of different grammatical rules. Language is faaaaaar, far, far from black and white, and if you think so, you've got another thing coming.

As for the social status part of your post, yes, social setting does play a part in language using; that much is irrefutable.
However, for the most part, it is the setting that allows for certain language usage. GW is a game, where people go to relax and hang out with friends, which in turn allows for the relaxed, buddy-buddy-like in-game speech that we see.